{"id":1131,"date":"2008-10-03T13:47:42","date_gmt":"2008-10-03T17:47:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/?p=1131"},"modified":"2013-05-29T11:22:19","modified_gmt":"2013-05-29T15:22:19","slug":"episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/","title":{"rendered":"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript"},"content":{"rendered":"

Listen to this episode now:<\/strong>
\n[powerpress]
\nTRANSCRIPT
\nEpisode 1205<\/strong><\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor:\u00a0 Coming up, should the rules about what makes meat kosher extend to how the workers in meat-packing plants are treated?<\/p>\n

And a Unitarian minister who is terminally ill says the love we give others lives on long after we are gone.<\/p>\n

Reverend FORREST CHURCH:\u00a0 The greatest of all truths is that love never dies.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 Welcome.\u00a0 I\u2019m Bob Abernethy.\u00a0 It\u2019s good to have you with us.<\/p>\n

As Congress and administration officials wrestled over what to do about the financial crisis, religious leaders also weighed in.\u00a0 The U.S Catholic bishops wrote to government leaders urging them to consider the moral dimensions of the crisis.\u00a0 They said priority must be given to the poor and most vulnerable. The Christian anti-hunger group, Bread for the World, cautioned that solutions focused on the U.S. economy must not derail progress in fighting poverty overseas.\u00a0 And Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said the situation shows what happens when societies neglect the common good.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 There was renewed debate this week over politicking from the pulpit.\u00a0 More than 30 pastors around the country defied the Internal Revenue Service rule, which bans clergy from engaging in partisan politics from their pulpits.\u00a0 One of the pastors was Ron Johnson, Jr. in Crown Point, Indiana, who believes clergy have a right and a duty to speak out.<\/p>\n

Reverend RON JOHNSON, Jr. (Living Stones Church, during sermon):\u00a0 I have absolutely no problem telling you as a Christian who you should not be voting for.\u00a0 Senator Barack Obama\u2019s positions on the critical issues of life and marriage are in direct opposition to God’s truth as he has revealed it in the scriptures.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State filed complaints with the IRS.\u00a0 He said churches are supposed to tend to Americans\u2019 spiritual needs, not get involved in partisan politics.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 White evangelicals have been a key part of the Republicans\u2019 winning coalition for the past 20 years.\u00a0 But RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY has released a new survey showing that younger evangelicals are less supportive of John McCain than their parents are.\u00a0 Our managing editor Kim Lawton is here.\u00a0 Kim . . .<\/p>\n

KIM LAWTON (Managing Editor, RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY):\u00a0 Evangelicals are the single largest voting bloc of religious voters.\u00a0 They make up more than a quarter of the American electorate.\u00a0 So they\u2019re very important to Republicans and the Republicans in the last few elections have needed every evangelical vote that they could get.\u00a0 Our survey found solid support for John McCain among white evangelicals \u2014 about 71 percent say they are going to vote for John McCain, compared to only about 23 percent who say they are going to vote for Barack Obama.\u00a0 But when you look at younger evangelicals, those under 30, that margin closes.\u00a0 So about 62 percent of young evangelicals say they\u2019re going to vote for John McCain and 30 percent say they\u2019re going to vote for Barack Obama. So they\u2019re still Republican but not as Republican.\u00a0 And in a close election that could make a difference.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 What do the younger evangelicals think of Sarah Palin?<\/p>\n

Ms. LAWTON:\u00a0 Well, our survey was conducted the first several weeks of September and there was a lot of energy in the evangelical world around Sarah Palin.\u00a0 They liked her very much.\u00a0 Our survey found overall older white evangelicals very favorable toward her; younger evangelicals less favorable toward her.\u00a0 And we found a really surprising gender difference as well.\u00a0 Younger female evangelicals were dramatically less favorable towards Sarah Palin than older evangelical women.\u00a0 Less than half of evangelical, white evangelical women under 30 felt warmly toward Sarah Palin and well over 60 percent of the older women like her.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 And what about on the social issues, particularly abortion?\u00a0 Any differences there?<\/p>\n

Ms. LAWTON:\u00a0 Well certainly evangelicals, many evangelicals, have traditionally based their vote on two key issues \u2014 abortion and opposition to gay marriage.\u00a0 But we found that younger, white evangelicals aren\u2019t quite so tied to those issues.\u00a0 They\u2019re solidly pro-life on abortion, about the same as their parents.\u00a0 But when it comes to gay issues, we found that younger evangelicals were more tolerant.\u00a0 More than half of the younger white evangelicals we talked with support some form of a legal recognition of civil unions for same sex couples, or even gay marriage.\u00a0 That\u2019s a big difference with older evangelicals.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 And what do we take away from this?\u00a0 What are the implications?<\/p>\n

Ms. LAWTON:\u00a0 Well, this has been a key part of the political landscape that evangelicals were solidly Republican.\u00a0 If in the future that changes, that could have really big political implications.\u00a0 Now what we don\u2019t know is whether these numbers are tied to this particular election \u2014 to John McCain, Barack Obama.\u00a0 And we also don\u2019t know whether these younger evangelicals may become more conservative as they get older, maybe get married, have kids.\u00a0 Maybe their views will change.\u00a0 But certainly if the future of the evangelical movement is more moderate, less conservative, that could have a big impact.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0\u00a0 Kim Lawton, many thanks.<\/p>\n

Ms. LAWTON:\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
\nBOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 Major holidays for Jews and Muslims coincided this week.\u00a0 Security was on high alert in Israel as Jews began observing their high holy days and Muslims celebrated the end of Ramadan.\u00a0 For Jews, Rosh Hashanah, the New Year, began a 10-day period of reflection that culminates on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, next Thursday.<\/p>\n

Meanwhile, Muslims around the world celebrated Eid-al-Fitr, the joyous festival completing the Islamic month of daylight fasting.\u00a0 But in several places the festivities were marred by sectarian violence.\u00a0 In Baghdad, dozens were killed when suicide bombers targeted Shiite mosques where people had come for Eid prayers.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY: Tragedy also struck during a major Hindu holiday in India.\u00a0 More than 200 pilgrims were killed during a stampede at a Hindu temple in northern India. Thousands had gathered there to celebrate the beginning of Navaratri, a nine-day festival dedicated to the Hindu mother goddess Durga.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 We have a story today about a question facing many Orthodox and Conservative Jews who eat only kosher food.\u00a0 Meat is kosher if it has been prepared according to Jewish law, and certified so by a rabbi.\u00a0 But what if the plant managers were accused of unfair labor practices?\u00a0\u00a0 Should kosher certification depend not only on how an animal is slaughtered but on how workers are treated?\u00a0\u00a0 Lucky Severson reports from Iowa, where a kosher meat packing plant is owned and run by Orthodox Jews from Brooklyn.<\/p>\n

LUCKY SEVERSON:\u00a0 This was the scene in the early hours of May 12, when authorities staged a commando style raid on the Agriprocessors kosher meat packing plant in Postville, Iowa.\u00a0 They arrested hundreds of suspected illegal immigrants.\u00a0 But then they uncovered evidence suggesting serious safety violations and child labor abuse by plant officials.\u00a0 People in this small town are still in shock, and the reverberations have rattled and divided the American Jewish community.\u00a0 It\u2019s a debate not so much about the raid itself, but what it uncovered.\u00a0 Rabbi Morris Allen.<\/p>\n

Rabbi MORRIS ALLEN (Beth Jacob Congregation, Minneapolis, MN):\u00a0 The Jewish community is going to have to ask, \u201cIs it, is it enough for us to be satisfied that we have kosher food on our plate?\u00a0 Or are we also concerned that in the fulfillment of the laws of kashrut, which is a fulfillment of a way in which we bring holiness into our lives that there has not been a desecration of people\u2019s dignity in allowing me to fulfill my holy, my holy act?\u201d<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 It was an odd match in the beginning in 1988 when orthodox Jews from Brooklyn, New York showed up in rural Postville and bought the defunct meat packing plant on the edge of town.\u00a0 But over the years, Christians and Jews lived side by side and both sides seemed to prosper\u00a0 Agriprocessors grew into the largest producer of kosher food in the U.S.\u00a0\u00a0 Including the slaughterhouse, the plant employed over a thousand workers, with rabbis supervising the actual killing to make sure it\u2019s done in keeping with Jewish law.<\/p>\n

MENACHEM LUBINSKY (Spokesman, Agriprocessor, Inc.):\u00a0\u00a0 It has to be done by a \u201cshochet,\u201d by a kosher slaughterer who is a God fearing Jew.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 In fact, kosher rules are so strict rabbis like Yosiede Lstein work in kosher restaurants and markets to make certain all foods coming in meet biblical standards.<\/p>\n

Rabbi YOSIEDE LSTEIN (Caravelle Restaurant):\u00a0 A kosher animal is delineated in the Bible, Chapter 11 of Leviticus.\u00a0 God says in the Bible what animals may be eaten.\u00a0\u00a0 For example only certain types of animals and those animals are kosher only because they have split hooves and chew their cud.\u00a0 Why these are the signs for kosher, we have no idea.\u00a0 God said it.\u00a0 We believe it \u2014 simple as that.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 It\u2019s believed that almost 90 percent of orthodox Jews eat only kosher food and around 20 percent of conservative Jews adhere to the tradition.\u00a0 Consumers look for the kosher label much as they do the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.\u00a0 So they were taken aback when the animal rights group PETA took this video and accused Agriprocessors of not slaughtering in a humane way.<\/p>\n

ELINORE EHRLICH (Kosher Customer):\u00a0 I do a lot of my kosher meat shopping at Shop Rite.\u00a0 And I have spoken to the manager of the butcher section and I said I was really very upset and very disturbed about what I had heard about the plant, the Agriprocessors plant in Iowa.\u00a0 And he too was very upset and very disturbed.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 But the consternation over the kosher slaughter and processing of animals has grown into concern over the ethical treatment of humans \u2014 of workers.\u00a0 And there are some rabbis now who want to expand the meaning of kosher.<\/p>\n

Rabbi ALLEN:\u00a0 We believe that most consumers, when given a choice between a product that says it\u2019s ritually kosher, and a product that says it\u2019s ritually kosher and it\u2019s been produced in an ethical fashion, we\u2019ll choose the latter.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 Nearly 400 immigrants were charged with immigration violations.\u00a0 The men are still in prison or have been deported.\u00a0 The women, mostly mothers, wear electronic monitoring bracelets.\u00a0 And it\u2019s left to religious leaders, like Father Paul Ouderkirk of St. Bridget\u2019s Catholic Church, to feed and care for the moms and kids.<\/p>\n

Father LLOYD PAUL OUDEKIRK (St. Bridget\u2019s Catholic Church):\u00a0 The more I talk about it, the madder I get, because we\u2019re going into our fifth month of this.\u00a0 They have these women with no money, no income.\u00a0\u00a0 Plus they need food, and shelter, and so on.\u00a0 So immigration is asking us to pay for their being incarcerated right on the streets of this town.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 Father Paul introduced us to Rosa Samora, mother of two daughters whose father was taken to a Missouri prison.\u00a0 For five months she has been wearing an electronic monitoring bracelet, leaving her unable to work or to leave town.<\/p>\n

ROSA SAMORA (speaking in Spanish)<\/p>\n

Father OUDEKIRK:\u00a0 She said \u201cThere isn\u2019t much I can do because I, because I depend so much on the charity of the church here.\u201d\u00a0 So even if her husband were deported, she wouldn\u2019t have enough money to go with him.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 The Agriprocessors raid was the biggest of its kind in U.S. history.\u00a0 Company spokesman Menachem Lubinsky questions the government\u2019s motives.<\/p>\n

Mr. LUBINSKY:\u00a0 I\u2019m not going to be the one to accuse anyone of being that selective to pick on that company because of the way they look.\u00a0 Maybe they look like Hassidim, maybe they\u2019re Jewish.\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m not going to deny that their very entry into Postville, Iowa wasn’t under the most friendly terms.\u00a0 I believe that there was something here that just didn\u2019t add up.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 But Rabbi Allen, who leads a conservative congregation in Minneapolis, says he doesn\u2019t think Agriprocessors was targeted because it\u2019s operated by orthodox Jews, but because they treated their workers poorly.\u00a0 He points to the over 9,000 criminal misdemeanor charges authorities have filed against the company for, among other things, hiring underage workers and putting them in hazardous jobs.\u00a0 Rabbi Allen visited the plant before and after the raid.<\/p>\n

Rabbi ALLEN:\u00a0 People shared with us unbelievable stories of, of pain and suffering that they endured because they had no choices.\u00a0 If they raised their voice, they could have been deported back, and they really didn\u2019t have any place to turn to.<\/p>\n

Mr. LUBINSKY:\u00a0 The government\u2019s going to have to prove that the management knew every day that these people were, were of underage.\u00a0 Remember, the imperative for these people was they wanted to make money.\u00a0 They wanted to help their families.\u00a0 And as in every immigrant group, they’ll do anything under the sun to get those jobs and to bring money into the house.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 Rabbi Allen says Leviticus details kosher laws, but there are equally important laws about the treatment of workers in Deuteronomy, Chapter 24.<\/p>\n

Rabbi ALLEN:\u00a0 You should not abuse the needy and destitute labor, whether a fellow countrymen, or a stranger in one of the communities of your land \u2014 and one text telling us what kind of meat to eat isn\u2019t written in boldface, and another text telling us about how to treat the worker isn\u2019t written in small print.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 Rabbi Allen is pushing a plan to add an additional symbol to the kosher certification \u2014 a \u201cjustice\u201d certificate that says the kosher product meets biblical, ethical standards as well.\u00a0 He says he\u2019s received enthusiastic support for his justice certificate from rabbis across the religious spectrum, but certainly not all.<\/p>\n

Mr. LUBINSKY:\u00a0 I think it\u2019s more that the Orthodox feel, \u201cLook, we are \u2014 we\u2019re the basic customers.\u00a0 We buy this product 365 days a year.\u00a0 We\u2019re interested kashrut the way it was for 3,000 years.\u00a0 We’re not interested in redefining it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rabbi LSTEIN:\u00a0 In America there are plenty of labor laws to deal with that.\u00a0 And if the government is not doing enough to enforce it, then you just have to step up what the laws are doing already.<\/p>\n

Rabbi ALLEN:\u00a0 It\u2019s a religious concern.\u00a0 And we should never leave to the government those issues that are the responsibility of a particular religious community to address.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 Even though some Jewish leaders are opposed to the notion of a \u2018justice\u2019 certificate, the idea may be gaining steam among Jewish consumers.
\nMs. ERHLICH:\u00a0 I discussed it with my rabbi and he\u2019s not happy about putting this into a solid written down kind of thing.\u00a0\u00a0 Certain things should be done without having to put them down. And yet behind, behind this movement I think there is something worthwhile.<\/p>\n

Rabbi ALLEN:\u00a0 This is a major undertaking.\u00a0 This is the first time that a religious community has staked \u2014 has set out to say that it is possible to demonstrate that good corporate citizenship is something that can be rewarded from a religious point of view.<\/p>\n

SEVERSON:\u00a0 The Agriprocessors plant has hired a new person to run its operation with promises to make things better.\u00a0 The plant itself is not operating nearly at capacity because not enough people can be found to do the unpleasant work.\u00a0 And the illegal immigrants are still waiting to learn their fate.<\/p>\n

For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, I\u2019m Lucky Severson in Postville, Iowa.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 In other news, the Dalai Lama made his first public appearance since being released from the hospital last month.\u00a0 The spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism taught at a retreat in Dharmasala, India, where he lives.\u00a0 He was hospitalized in early September for abdominal pains.\u00a0 Aides say the 73-year-old leader had been exhausted from his busy schedule.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
\nBOB ABERNETHY:\u00a0 The Vatican is going a little more green.\u00a0 Workers began installing solar
\npanels on the roof of the papal audience hall in Vatican City.\u00a0 Rome gets a lot of sun, enough, according to engineers, to illuminate, heat or cool the hall.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor:\u00a0 We have a profile today of perhaps this country\u2019s best known Unitarian-Universalist minister, Reverend Forrest Church of New York.\u00a0 He has a new book out called \u201cLove and Death.\u201d\u00a0 Last week, Church\u2019s congregation gave him a 60th birthday party.\u00a0 But it was a celebration with great sadness just underneath the joy.<\/p>\n

It was a love fest at the Unitarian Church of All Souls on the Upper East Side of New York.<\/p>\n

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN:\u00a0 Happy birthday, happy birthday!!<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 The members honored Reverend Forrest Church, their pastor for 30 years, on the occasion of his 60th birthday.\u00a0 His wife was there and their children, and his 85 year old mother.\u00a0 The covers of his 24 books were on display.\u00a0 But there was a great poignancy to the festivities because everyone present knew that Reverend Church is terminally ill.\u00a0 He has incurable cancer of his lungs and liver, and he guesses he has less than a year to live.<\/p>\n

Reverend FORREST CHURCH:\u00a0 I\u2019m being gifted a month at a time, and rejoicing in that.\u00a0 But eventually the treatment will lose its valence, and the barbarians will storm the gate.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 Church says he was astounded at his reaction to being told he is dying.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 I went straight to acceptance.\u00a0 I skipped shock and disbelief and anger and resentment.\u00a0 I went directly to acceptance.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY: The key, Church says, was being able to settle unfinished emotional business.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 The only way to reconcile yourself, make peace with yourself, make peace with your neighbor, make peace with God, find salvation, is to break through and love \u2014 to forgive and to love.\u00a0 You don\u2019t change the person you forgive. You change your own heart.\u00a0 So anything that you can do to reconcile also means that at the end of your life when you\u2019re given a few months to live, you can look back without regret.<\/p>\n

The two saddest words in the English language are \u201cif only\u201d and they ring with the most poignancy at a time that a person gets word that he or she has a terminal illness:\u00a0 \u201cif only I had stopped drinking; if only I had dared to change careers when I could; if only I had reconciled with my father when I had a chance.\u201d<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY: Church did have time to say goodbye to his father, the late U.S. Senator Frank Church, during his last months.\u00a0 But he concedes he was slow to realize his duty to his family now.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 When I was talking about not having unfinished business, my wife quickly pointed out to me, \u201cWell you may not have unfinished business, Forrest, but your children have unfinished business.\u00a0 And I have unfinished business.\u00a0 And let\u2019s get down to it.\u201d\u00a0 I realized this wasn\u2019t about my death.\u00a0 This was our death.\u00a0 And that focused me in on them.\u00a0 This was a time to listen, embrace and say, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry\u201d \u2014 and crying together and then singing, singing the old songs.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY: A lot of crying?<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 There was a lot of crying.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 During and in spite of his illness and treatment over the past two years, Church wrote two books.\u00a0 He confessed to his congregation one of the reasons for his productivity.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH (during church sermon):\u00a0 That\u2019s right, steroids!\u00a0 Every week, the good folks at Memorial pumped me full of steroids.\u00a0 They helped me tolerate the poison they were pumping into me to kill the cancer.\u00a0 For two or three days after every treatment I was flying.\u00a0 I haven\u2019t been so high since the late \u201860s.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 Like other Unitarian-Universalists, Church rejects many aspects of Christian doctrine.\u00a0 He neither blames God for his illness, nor asks God for healing.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 I don\u2019t pray for miracles.\u00a0 I don\u2019t pray to cure my incurable cancer.\u00a0 I receive\u00a0 and consecrate each day that I\u2019m given as a gift.\u00a0 I have no idea what happens after we die.\u00a0 And so, I go with Henry David Thoreau who, when he was asked about the afterlife, said, \u201cMadam, I prefer to take it one life at a time.\u201d<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 At the same time, Church says he has come to believe that without God there is nothing.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 God is what sustains me.\u00a0 I am connected with that grace and power.\u00a0 God is that which is greater than all and present in each.\u00a0 For me, Christianity is a faith about love:\u00a0 love to God and love to neighbor that is right in the heart of my very being. I am a Christian Universalist.\u00a0 I believe that the same light shines through every religious window.\u00a0 And it\u2019s interpreted.\u00a0 The windows are different.\u00a0 It\u2019s interpreted in different ways.\u00a0 It refracts in different ways.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY: Church calls what he wrote in his new book a coda to his theology.<\/p>\n

Rev. CHURCH:\u00a0 My lifelong belief that love and death interwoven were the heartstrings of religion.\u00a0 The greatest of all truths is that love never dies \u2014 that every act of love that we perform in this life is carried on and passed on into another life so that centuries from now the love carries.\u00a0 And that is the work of religion. The opposite of love is not death.\u00a0 It is fear.\u00a0 Fear is what armors our hearts.\u00a0 If our hearts are armored, they\u2019ll never be broken. And I have seen so many people get hurt in love and then try to protect themselves against it.\u00a0 And when they protect themselves against love, they protect themselves against the only thing that is worth living for.<\/p>\n

The secret of it all is that it\u2019s not about me, to the extent that we\u2019re self-conscious, -absorbed, we cannot be conscious of the world around us, of God and of our neighbors.<\/p>\n

I have preached on living in the present for my entire career.\u00a0 Only in the here and now can we love God and love our neighbor, can we redeem the day.<\/p>\n

One of the beautiful things about a terminal illness your friendships become stronger.\u00a0 Your loved ones become more vital and more present.\u00a0 Each day becomes more beautiful. You unwrap the present and receive it as the gift it is. You walk through the valley of the shadow and it\u2019s riddled with light.<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY: At the close of all the other tributes to Church, his wife made hers.<\/p>\n

CAROLYN CHURCH:\u00a0 I want you to know how much at peace Forrest is.\u00a0 He\u2019s at peace because he\u2019s become the man he wanted to be.\u00a0 He couldn\u2019t have done that without you.\u00a0 You have loved him, you have supported him, you have forgiven him and that\u2019s really made all the difference.\u00a0 So, darling, 60 years.\u00a0 Happy Birthday!<\/p>\n

ABERNETHY:\u00a0 And if love could heal him, there would be many more.\u00a0 Even with his uncertain future, Church is scheduled to preach again later this month.<\/p>\n

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<\/p>\n

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor:\u00a0 That’s our program for now.\u00a0 I’m Bob Abernethy.\u00a0 There’s much more on our Web site, including my full interview with Forrest Church.\u00a0 You can find more
\ndetails about our new survey on the political views of young evangelicals and additional\u00a0 political coverage on our One Nation page.\u00a0 Audio and video podcasts are also available.\u00a0 Join us at pbs.org.<\/p>\n

As we leave you, music from the Living Stones Church in Crown Point, Indiana.<\/p>\n

###<\/p>\n

\u00a9 2008 WNET-TV.\u00a0 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
\nPrepared by Burrelle’s Information Services, which takes sole responsibility for accuracy of transcription.\u00a0 No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research.\u00a0 User may not reproduce any copy of the material except for user’s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be reproduced, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any manner that may infringe upon WNET-TV’s copyright or proprietary interests in the material.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Listen to this episode now: [powerpress] TRANSCRIPT Episode 1205 BOB ABERNETHY, anchor:\u00a0 Coming up, should the rules about what makes meat kosher extend to how the workers in meat-packing plants are treated? And a Unitarian minister who is terminally ill … More →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":72,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[532],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1131","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast"],"yoast_head":"\nListen Now \/ Read the Transcript | October 3, 2008 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Listen to this episode online, download the MP3 and read the transcript.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript | October 3, 2008 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Listen to this episode online, download the MP3 and read the transcript.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/PBS.ReligionEthics\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2008-10-03T17:47:42+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2013-05-29T15:22:19+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Fred Yi\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@ReligionEthics\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@ReligionEthics\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Fred Yi\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"20 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Fred Yi\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#\/schema\/person\/0576fe5f06986bc0418635994a2bcd47\"},\"headline\":\"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript\",\"datePublished\":\"2008-10-03T17:47:42+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-05-29T15:22:19+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/\"},\"wordCount\":4017,\"commentCount\":0,\"articleSection\":[\"Podcast\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/\",\"name\":\"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript | October 3, 2008 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2008-10-03T17:47:42+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-05-29T15:22:19+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#\/schema\/person\/0576fe5f06986bc0418635994a2bcd47\"},\"description\":\"Listen to this episode online, download the MP3 and read the transcript.\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/\",\"name\":\"Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly\",\"description\":\"An examination of religion's role and the ethical dimensions behind top news headlines.\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/search-results\/?q={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#\/schema\/person\/0576fe5f06986bc0418635994a2bcd47\",\"name\":\"Fred Yi\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/author\/yif\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript | October 3, 2008 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS","description":"Listen to this episode online, download the MP3 and read the transcript.","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript | October 3, 2008 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS","og_description":"Listen to this episode online, download the MP3 and read the transcript.","og_url":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/","og_site_name":"Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly","article_publisher":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/PBS.ReligionEthics\/","article_published_time":"2008-10-03T17:47:42+00:00","article_modified_time":"2013-05-29T15:22:19+00:00","author":"Fred Yi","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@ReligionEthics","twitter_site":"@ReligionEthics","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Fred Yi","Est. reading time":"20 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/"},"author":{"name":"Fred Yi","@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#\/schema\/person\/0576fe5f06986bc0418635994a2bcd47"},"headline":"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript","datePublished":"2008-10-03T17:47:42+00:00","dateModified":"2013-05-29T15:22:19+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/"},"wordCount":4017,"commentCount":0,"articleSection":["Podcast"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/","url":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/","name":"Listen Now \/ Read the Transcript | October 3, 2008 | Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#website"},"datePublished":"2008-10-03T17:47:42+00:00","dateModified":"2013-05-29T15:22:19+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#\/schema\/person\/0576fe5f06986bc0418635994a2bcd47"},"description":"Listen to this episode online, download the MP3 and read the transcript.","inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2008\/10\/03\/episode-no-1205-listen-now-read-the-transcript\/1131\/"]}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#website","url":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/","name":"Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly","description":"An examination of religion's role and the ethical dimensions behind top news headlines.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/search-results\/?q={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/#\/schema\/person\/0576fe5f06986bc0418635994a2bcd47","name":"Fred Yi","url":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/author\/yif\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1131","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/72"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1131"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1131\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1131"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1131"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1131"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}