{"id":1734,"date":"2009-07-31T13:57:12","date_gmt":"2009-07-31T18:57:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/?p=1734"},"modified":"2013-05-10T15:14:53","modified_gmt":"2013-05-10T19:14:53","slug":"july-31-2009-interracial-churches","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2009\/07\/31\/july-31-2009-interracial-churches\/1734\/","title":{"rendered":" Interracial Churches"},"content":{"rendered":"<div style=\"text-align:center\"><\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>KIM LAWTON<\/strong>, anchor: A tense national debate about racial profiling has continued since Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested in his Cambridge home for disorderly conduct. Gates, who is African-American, was arrested by Sergeant James Crowley, a white officer who had responded to a 9-11 call about a possible break-in. The controversy intensified when President Obama said the police &#8220;acted stupidly&#8221; when they arrested Gates. The president later said he regretted his choice of words and he hosted both Gates and Crowley at the White House Thursday for a conciliatory beer. The incident and the ensuing debate show how divisive racial issues can be in this country.\u00a0 Even though America has elected its first black president, efforts toward racial integration are often still fraught with difficulties, not least in churches where it\u2019s been said that 11 o\u2019clock on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour of the week. Lucky Severson reports.<\/p>\n<p><strong>LUCKY SEVERSON<\/strong>: If something seems odd or unusual about these worshippers, maybe it\u2019s the diversity, all the different colors and nationalities of their faces. This is the Wilcrest Baptist Church in Houston, and Pastor Rodney Woo couldn\u2019t be more proud of the cultural and racial mix of his congregation.<\/p>\n<p>Pastor <strong>RODNEY WOO<\/strong> (Wilcrest Baptist Church, Houston, TX): I think my main passion is to get people ready for heaven. I think a lot of our people are going to go into culture shock when they get to heaven, and they get to sit next to somebody that they didn\u2019t maybe sit with while they were here on earth. So we\u2019re trying to get them acclimated a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Assuming Pastor Woo is right, there are a lot of congregations that need to get acclimated. A recent study found that only 7 percent of churches in the US are integrated. This comes as no surprise to Ohio State sociology professor Korie Edwards, author of the book \u201cThe Elusive Dream.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Professor <strong>KORIE EDWARDS <\/strong>(Sociology Department, Ohio State University and Author, \u201cThe Elusive Dream\u201d): We\u2019re segregated in housing. Even the job market is segregated, and we end up going to churches with people who look like us.<\/p>\n<div class=\"captionLeft\">\n<table border=\"0\">\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-1739\" src=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/emersonimagespost.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"240\" height=\"180\" \/><br \/>\n<strong>Professor Michael Emerson<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n<p>Professor <strong>MICHAEL EMERSON <\/strong>(Sociology Department, Rice University): Sometimes,you know, you\u2019ll hear the statement of African Americans saying, \u201cI have to work with whites. I may have to shop with them. But on Sunday I want to \u2014 I don\u2019t want to have to worship with them. I want to be able to just be myself and let my hair down.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Rice University sociology professor Michael Emerson, who authored the study on the make-up of churches in the US, says racial separation inside most churches is even more pronounced than it is outside for a number of reasons.<\/p>\n<p>Prof. <strong>EMERSON<\/strong>: What we found in the study is that churches are 10 times less diverse than the neighborhoods they sit in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Emerson also found that churches in the South were the least integrated, partly because African Americans are concerned about whites taking over their congregation.<\/p>\n<p>Prof. <strong>EMERSON<\/strong>: That\u2019s a big fear, right, and when I talk with black pastors, the same thing: If we try to have this move towards interracial congregations, whites will just dominate them. There are so many more of them, and they\u2019re used to being in the position of power, so they\u2019ll just take over, and we\u2019ll lose the one thing we do have.<\/p>\n<p>Prof.<strong> EDWARDS<\/strong>: And so what happens in these congregations where you have whites and blacks, even though they may be well intended, people coming together and wanting to do the Christian thing, wanting to serve God together, you\u2019re going to find that these kinds of issues that occur outside of the church come into the church.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Pastor Rufus Smith of the City of Refuge Church in Houston is one of very few African Americans who lead an interracial church. Smith says when he took over the evangelical Presbyterian congregation it was mostly white, bored, and dwindling. He said he would only agree to be pastor if members promised to integrate.<\/p>\n<div class=\"captionRight\">\n<table border=\"0\">\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td><a href=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/smithpost.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-1741\" src=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/smithpost.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"240\" height=\"180\" \/><\/a><strong><\/strong><strong><\/strong><strong>Pastor Rufus Smith<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"captionRight\">Pastor <strong>RUFUS SMITH <\/strong>(City of Refuge Church, Houston, TX): To their credit, many of those core people decided, you know, come hell or high water, we\u2019re going to try this thing and give it our best shot, though it was an experiment, and here now, 12 years later, we think it\u2019s a grand experience.<\/div>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Today the church is about 45 percent white, 45 percent black, and the rest Hispanic and Asian. But Pastor Smith says the \u201cgrand experience\u201d hasn\u2019t always been pleasant.<\/p>\n<p>Pastor <strong>SMITH<\/strong>: You\u2019re certainly up against the natural stereotypes. You\u2019re up against ignorance. You\u2019re up against some hard-heartedness and, you know, some outright evil with respect to some people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Pastor Rodney Woo, half Chinese, grew up in a black neighborhood, went to an all-white church, and married his Hispanic childhood sweetheart.<\/p>\n<p><em>Pastor <strong>WOO <\/strong>(preaching): The poor rich. Let me tell you who they are. They are the people who have a lot of money and nothing else.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: When he came here, the church had only two black members out of 180. Today Wilcrest Baptist has 500 members divided almost equally among whites, blacks, and Hispanics, with the remainder made up of Asians. Woo says he didn\u2019t realize how difficult it was going to be integrating his church.<\/p>\n<div class=\"captionLeft\">\n<table border=\"0\">\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td><a href=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/wooposts.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-1743\" src=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/wooposts.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"240\" height=\"180\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><strong>Pastor Rodney Woo<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n<p>Pastor <strong>WOO<\/strong>: When we started a lot of people were going, \u201cAh, this is making me feel uncomfortable.\u201d Whether the kids were in the nursery together, or their kids were in the young group, a lot of parents were fearful that their kids might start dating somebody that was a different race.<\/p>\n<p>Prof.<strong> EMERSON<\/strong>: In the beginning stages, there\u2019s often a lot of pain, a lot of confusion. A lot of people leave. Maybe there\u2019s even anger. But if they make it through that, it becomes something that people just a lot of times will say, \u201cI couldn\u2019t live without it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><em>Pastor <strong>SMITH <\/strong>(preaching): Ask me how I feel.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>CONGREGATION (responding): How do you feel?<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Pastor <strong>SMITH<\/strong>: If I was any better, I would have to be twins, and that\u2019s the truth if I ever told it.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Pastor Rufus Smith has succeeded in not only integrating his church racially. His congregation comes from all walks of life. When it grew, he deliberately located the church between affluent and low-income neighborhoods. Carol Vance, a former district attorney, was one of the founding members.<\/p>\n<p><strong>CAROL VANCE<\/strong> (Founding Member, City of Refuge Church): We picked Rufus because he\u2019s a great pastor, not because he\u2019s black. But I think it\u2019s wonderful that he is, because we\u2019re sitting right here on the edge, and I sort of like to think of our church as the \u201cbridge over troubled waters.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Pastor <strong>SMITH<\/strong>: To me, one of the true tests of the power of the Gospel is to unify people across socio-economic, racial lines, which is what the heart of Christianity is and was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Karen Giesen has a doctorate in theology. She says she grew up in a white church where people bowed their head, folded their hands, and worshipped quietly \u2014 very different from what she experiences at City of Refuge.<\/p>\n<p><strong>KAREN GIESEN<\/strong> (Congregation Member, City of Refugee Church): The worship style is an issue. None of us are right in probably our heart language style. We\u2019re all making a sacrifice to be there. It\u2019s a mix. A lot of people go looking for churches saying, \u201cI am looking for the one that ministers to me,\u201d and to go here we\u2019ve obviously all made a choice that we want to serve there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Rebecca Miller wants to be a pastor. She says she searched to find a church that felt like a community.<\/p>\n<p><strong>REBECCA MILLER<\/strong> (Congregation Member, City of Refuge Church): People worship the way the spirit leads them to worship. I really don\u2019t think that there is anybody saying you can\u2019t shout, you can\u2019t scream, you can\u2019t say \u201challelujah\u201d or you can\u2019t clap your hands. It\u2019s not the typical Presbyterian \u201cyou can\u2019t raise your hands\u201d church.<\/p>\n<p>Pastor <strong>WOO<\/strong>: Where we really changed, and we saw the growth, grow at exponentially, was when the church became less than 50 percent white, and so there was no majority group, and that just changed the entire mindset.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Church guitarist Jim Kruse married a Hispanic and adopted a Hispanic child. He says he\u2019s learning a few things about his own prejudice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JIM KRUSE<\/strong> (Guitarist, Wilcrest Baptist Church): What we\u2019re learning is that you may not come to it thinking you are prejudiced. You may be seriously trying not to be prejudiced. But then you find out the things you are doing come across as prejudiced. So I think a lot of our effort has been to learn to relax, to let people be people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: It would be difficult to find a more graphic example of religion bridging a racial divide than Dwight Pryor and Rick Taylor. Taylor describes himself as a reformed \u201credneck.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>RICK TAYLOR <\/strong>(Congregation Member, Wilcrest Baptist Church): From where I come from, to be honest, I was taught to hate people like Dwight and to not have anything to do with them and that they were less than I was, and I believed that most of my life. I truly did. But the Lord has a way of showing you your prejudices in your life.<\/p>\n<div class=\"captionLeft\">\n<table border=\"0\">\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td><a href=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/friendsposts.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-1744\" src=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/files\/2008\/12\/friendsposts.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"240\" height=\"180\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dwight Pryor and Rick Taylor<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>DWIGHT PRYOR<\/strong> (Congregation Member, Wilcrest Baptist Church): I grew up in North Mississippi. As a little kid on those school buses, watching those people would shout racist names at me, and some of them were deacons and pastors in our community. It left a cold chill in my heart \u2014 a hatred.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: Dwight is a control systems designer, and Rick is a retired general contractor. The bond that has grown between them is plain to see.<\/p>\n<p>Mr. <strong>TAYLOR<\/strong>: Racism colors the truth. It makes people not look at other people as if they were human. It goes that deep. It truly does, and Christ teaches us that we are all the same.<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong> (to Prof. Emerson): Are churches that integrate richer because they did it?<\/p>\n<p>Prof. <strong>EMERSON<\/strong>: Yeah. I never meet a church that wishes they didn\u2019t do it. I never meet a leader that wishes they didn\u2019t do it. They will all say, to the person, \u201cIt\u2019s hard. It\u2019s difficult. It comes with complexities and confusion.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>SEVERSON<\/strong>: And they will say, if they\u2019re like Dwight and Rick, that church integration may not always come easy, but it comes with rich rewards and improbable friendships. For RELIGION &amp; ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, I\u2019m Lucky Severson in Houston.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; KIM LAWTON, anchor: A tense national debate about racial profiling has continued since Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates, Jr., was arrested in his Cambridge home for disorderly conduct. Gates, who is African-American, was arrested by Sergeant James Crowley, a &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/pbs-wnet-preprod.digi-producers.pbs.org\/wnet\/religionandethics\/2009\/07\/31\/july-31-2009-interracial-churches\/1734\/\" class=\"more\">More <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":49,"featured_media":16417,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[921,971,3480,5422,5805,1634,5185,5807,5804,5806,1048,2786,5808,5536],"class_list":["post-1734","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-african-american","tag-asian","tag-black","tag-churches","tag-congregations","tag-diversity","tag-hispanic","tag-integration","tag-interracial","tag-michael-emerson","tag-race","tag-racism","tag-white","tag-worship","topics-faith-and-spirituality","faith-protestant"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.1.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>July 31, 2009 ~ Interracial Churches | July 31, 2009 | Religion &amp; Ethics NewsWeekly | PBS<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"We\u2019re segregated in housing. 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